Freedom is relative. 

The way I see it is that the 'religous' people you refer to have a hard time allowinq/accepting of themselves and others questions, questioning, evolution of thought and practice.  Since they cannot accept intellectual exploration, they inevitably have rigid rules about what should and shouldn't be.

The root of that is fear.

You do follow the laws of the country you're in don't you? How can you be free when you're governed by law? How about defining freedom for a start?

what ever!

Dear Shalabieh, usually saying YES or NO, it has nothing to do with harming people, i'm speaking of the simplest matters, i become a free person when i say NO to a gathering i'm invited to but i don't feel like going, saying YES will mean that i will go for the sake of others but not mine. my YES or NO shouldn't harm anyone, because i will not say them unless i'm asked, and when i'm asked i'm free to say either or. regardless of the consequences, my YES or NO should be true to me, giving me a true moment that i deserve.

it can't get simple before it's complicated.  brilliance comes only after the chaos!

One more thing, what is conveyed to us as a religion is not a religion, in fact, there are no religions, there is only me, you, he and she, with a powerful spirit within u. Religion doesn't exist. me only exist, well spirited.

"Freedom suppose to make you a better person".. no not really, freedom is exactly as it is.. to be free in doing what you want as longest you don’t interfere with other people freedoms, what you think is bad, others may think is good.. take those examples; drinking doesn't automatically makes you "drunk"! there's a hug difference between the two.. the same as having sex to satisfy your human needs doesn’t makes you sex addict.. so you see you have your own view on what is good or not for others, which those others may not agree with you on.. that’s why you can’t force your opinions on others.. which is exactly what religion is doing

ok Baker.. glad to see you on all those posts, simple examples were mentioned previously.. alcohol and sex (out side marriage).. this is what the post means about religion and freedom.

Was reading this old thing here and thought how about trying to see it from a different angle...

Freedom or human rights? It all boils down to very basic needs. To use religion to suppress/enforce a set of behaviour is wrong, it is a classic case of one mans meat is another mans poison. By the way "Muharramat" a lot has been lumped in under that category wrongfully so too. A lot of people put things in the Prohibited by religion box, when in fact they are not! Alcohol is one of them, it isn't mentioned as a prohibition in Quran, but it is said you should avoid it. 

Anyway that wasn't the discussion here, it was freedom. Freedom comes with responsibility, it comes with a respect for each others boundaries, unfortunately zealots want their freedom and when they get it they immediately turn around and take it away from everyone else.

Simple equation: You are free to do what you want as long as it doesn't harm anybody in the process, who you sleep with, what you do on the weekend etc. As long as you are not harming anyone then be free. But this is not the way of the moslem/arab world, everyone is up ineveryones business whether they have a right to be there or not!

Sure.. I’ll elaborate:

What stroked me the most reading these comments is that you keep talking about the freedom of drinking (mahmoud) or sex out side of marriage (you) as if they where a bad side effects of freedom!!! actually this is the core of personal freedom.. people are entitled to have the life style/ behavior they want as longest they don't hurt other people... that's what it seemed religious/conservative people don't get by now, quote again:

"Do you believe people are free to beat their wives? free to take drugs? free to drink alcohol? free to overuse common-resources?"

Drinking alcohol, which is supposed to be a very basic right, is right there in the middle between taken drugs and overuse of common-resources.. hehehe, that's hilarious, it's seems only gangsters and mass murders drink alcohol.. and I've been drinking alcohol since the age of 15 and didn't know it!

quote again (from you this time):

"..and lack the capacity to understand that the extent of freedom and how only one small part of it is sexual freedom."

!! why you keep talking about sexual behavior like it was a taboo or a capital crime!! I really still don't get that mentality, I personally think that kids speeding on the roads and public smoking is the real issues of freedom we should be talking about.. not drinking and sex and spiky hairy (yes I'm referring to the rumor that spread a couple of weeks ago about banning spiky hair)..

What I think the problem with religious people that they think their ideas are divine and can not be questioned... well, it's not!

Was that enough or would you like me to elaborate even more..

I was browsing some old topics on Questler and I found this, and start reading it.. and I got amused by some of the comments:

mahmoud:""free" to drink alcohol?"... duh, yes they are.. lol... there are big big difference between beat up you wife and drinking or having casual sex or..., the difference is obviously your free as longest your not hurting any body else, it's as simple as that.. it's not a matter of "point of view" or "perspective".

Noura: "...only one small part of it is sexual freedom" people HAVE SEX... get over it!

Roba we never heard back from you on the questions below... I'd lvoe to hear more from your end about what you meant and what you think on the matter.

Do you believe people are "free" to beat their wives? "free" to take drugs? "free" to drink alcohol? "free" to overuse common-resources?

You are just as religious as others on what you believe to be "correct" and we all must follow it.

So, maybe, this [right and wrong of otherss actions] is just part of human nature. We are not indiviuals, but rather we are parts in a big system, the being of humanity. This being developed long ago, and it going through a journey in history that leads somewhere.

I know you will say I did not get your question. I know that this question can be answered at a different level where I wouldn't take your words literally as I did, but I'm trying to guess how religious people would answer.

Razan I think the whole statement needs to be more specific too. This is a generalization that I do not agree with. There are a number of religous persons I know who belive in freedoms and practice them in a general sense.

So Roba like Razan I would love to hear from you in more specific terms what u mean by freedoms and what you mean by religious. As this topic is very interesting.

Thanks